tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.comments2023-04-24T10:31:12.136-07:00Polishgenes BlogDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger356125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-89345862602697110412018-05-30T10:04:16.419-07:002018-05-30T10:04:16.419-07:00For Mr. Davidski and Mr.SpagetiMeatball
Read: Jan...For Mr. Davidski and Mr.SpagetiMeatball<br /><br />Read: Janisławice-Kujawy theory<br />archaeological artifacts: "inserts type DĘBY"/DĘBY - settlement on Kujawy/Poland; circle of Janisławice culture: 5000 BC/7000 bp<br />http://www.tropie.tarnow.opoka.org.pl/pol_slavs.htmAshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08379710576725021991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-65929473986861343772018-04-08T06:45:13.647-07:002018-04-08T06:45:13.647-07:00@Davidski it would be nice if you can trace this (...@Davidski it would be nice if you can trace this (or deny) the next case: modern NW Europeans vs. Polish-Silesian Unetice/Bronze Age people.<br /><br />Rise 150 Unetice, Przeclawice, Poland, F999948 (gedmatch),<br />has a quite NW European profile, in Eurogenes K15 he scores:<br /><br />Using 1 population approximation:<br />1 Danish @ 7.337605<br />2 Norwegian @ 8.207634<br />3 North_Dutch @ weurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217998844540373877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-10684241813014678242018-02-16T13:51:51.903-08:002018-02-16T13:51:51.903-08:00As a grandson of an East Prussian German I also ha...As a grandson of an East Prussian German I also have to admit that the subjugation of the Prussian Balts by the knights of the Teutonic Order was neither fair nor easygoing. It was ruthless and brutal, and the Old Prussians had bad luck not being at the height of the technical developments of the time. So the new German tribe that was born out of the fusion of Baltic Prussians and German settlersSimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-60933850308258732302018-02-12T23:01:06.519-08:002018-02-12T23:01:06.519-08:00Re paternal N and Balts: TMRCA of the whole "...Re paternal N and Balts: TMRCA of the whole "Baltic" N-M2783 is just 2700 years and if I'm right, the only N-M2783* has so far been found in Finland, also the preceding mutation levels point to Northern Baltics, if not eastwards. So, I'd say that this lineage came to Baltic area in the Bronze Age, somewhere from the Volga area, speaking Uralic, see here:<br /><br />https://s12.Queequeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04033948224040118380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-20019295340707916412018-02-10T20:07:45.975-08:002018-02-10T20:07:45.975-08:00Matt, I'd like to speak to the Bohemian side. ...Matt, I'd like to speak to the Bohemian side. I and my several Czech cousins are R-YP1700 (under Z92). So 3000 years ago our ancestors were in southern Lithuania (Turlojiske 3 may well be a direct ancestor of ours). Given the paper trail genealogy, we’ve been south of Plzen for at least the last 400 years, Clearly Slavs went West. We're the living proof.RKVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00287245520458090702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-15959739393186163092018-02-10T05:08:56.826-08:002018-02-10T05:08:56.826-08:00Thank you, Simon! I would also like to hear Kristi...Thank you, Simon! I would also like to hear Kristiina's opinion on this issue since she has a pretty good grasp of N subclades.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-88830112804748522812018-02-08T13:30:34.224-08:002018-02-08T13:30:34.224-08:00@ Matt
Fair enough. I also found it eye-catching ...@ Matt<br /><br />Fair enough. I also found it eye-catching how far from each other the two Bohemian Slavs plot, it's amazing if we bear in mind what a small place Bohemia is. I suspect one has more Proto-Slavic ancestry than the other one. And on top of that I'd bet that a Bohemian Celt from the La Tène culture of Iron Age Bohemia wouldn't plot with the Irish nor with the French; I&#Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-19055221530992812602018-02-08T13:18:12.888-08:002018-02-08T13:18:12.888-08:00@ Onur
Good point! Before these results were rele...@ Onur<br /><br />Good point! Before these results were released I would have guessed that the N comes either from the Narva culture or from the Comb Ceramics culture (CCC). But apparently the Narva culture was dominated by other haplogroups. There isn't a lot of yDNA from the CCC available, but anyway, the numerous Baltic Bronze Age samples don't have a single N among them. <br /><br />ASimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-41637310973010925672018-02-04T11:38:12.415-08:002018-02-04T11:38:12.415-08:00@Simon_W, I think it's a bit of a strong read ...@Simon_W, I think it's a bit of a strong read of Davidski's position (though he can speak for himself of course!) that he has suggested that this is measuring drift that has only occurred post-origin of the Baltic-Slavic languages, and was restricted to populations of speakers of Baltic-Slavic languages, and that any ancient sample which displays this drift likely spoke a Indo-European Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-73609133791619880422018-02-03T23:29:06.176-08:002018-02-03T23:29:06.176-08:00@Simon W
How do you explain the inflation or appe...@Simon W<br /><br />How do you explain the inflation or appearance of Y-DNA N haplogroups among Baltic speakers sometime after the Bronze Age (apparently with very little influence on autosomes)? <br /><br />I would also like to hear Kristiina's opinion on this issue.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-55520045454664261632018-02-03T10:57:58.964-08:002018-02-03T10:57:58.964-08:00A thought just occured to me about the north Europ...A thought just occured to me about the north European PCA and David's ethnic interpretation thereof: Basically, what the PCA shows is the ancient continuum of the genetic landscape of the northern half of Europe. And now we subdivide it according to the *modern* ethnic affiliations of the populations included. As an inevitable logical consequence modern south Germans for example end up in theSimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-15174406531881178642018-02-03T08:59:27.812-08:002018-02-03T08:59:27.812-08:00As a grandson of an East Prussian German I'm o...As a grandson of an East Prussian German I'm of course excited to have now, in the Turlojiske samples, a reasonable proxy for the old Prussians. So I quickly calculated the average of the two Turlojiske individuals in the Global10 data sheet and used it in nMonte to model my paternal grandmother's coordinates.<br /><br />But as her position in the West Eurasian PCA shows, she deviates Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-20345381111506470752018-02-03T04:08:47.434-08:002018-02-03T04:08:47.434-08:00@Sam, I'm not sure it's too likely Finns c...@Sam, I'm not sure it's too likely Finns could have been from a *wholly* different process, but have definitely had a distinct history since something like the early Bronze Age, I'd say. The population history looks quite different from others and like they've been at a small population size for a long time:<br /><br />https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-9014218033744694422018-02-03T03:42:24.206-08:002018-02-03T03:42:24.206-08:00Makes sense that Baltic_BA is ethnically Baltic. T...Makes sense that Baltic_BA is ethnically Baltic. These samples are already that late in absolute terms, and where else should the Balts have come from?<br /><br />Also good to see that the odd position of RISE598 here<br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQXy1feWVFYWp0WlE/view<br />was erroneous and apparently caused by the low coverage.<br /><br />This map shows the Baltic tribes Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-82878232573200470572018-02-02T09:57:20.513-08:002018-02-02T09:57:20.513-08:00@All
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/02/early-...@All<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/02/early-baltic-corded-ware-form-genetic.htmlDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-36380013256405171452018-02-02T02:54:50.295-08:002018-02-02T02:54:50.295-08:00Modern similarities hide old distinctions. A singl...Modern similarities hide old distinctions. A single always gradually becomes more similar. The Baltic used to be even more of a WHG-rich outlier in the Bronze age. Myceneans and BalticBA are more different than modern Balts and Greeks. It'd make no sense to put both Myceneans and BalticBA in the same Bronze age European genetic category but sort of makes sense to put modern Balts and Greeks Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-71853166609754022852018-02-02T02:47:34.758-08:002018-02-02T02:47:34.758-08:00Interesting stuff. A unique process happened in th...Interesting stuff. A unique process happened in the east Baltic. HGs makeup an important part of the formula that makes up Balts unlike in northwestern Europe where it is just MN farmer+Steppe. <br /><br /><br />Don, don, don....<br /><br />Saami.<br />Yamnaya-30%<br />MN farmer-13%<br />Narva HG-31%<br />Nganasan-26%<br /><br />Finland<br />Yamnaya-39%<br />MN Farmer-29%<br />Narva HG-24%<br />Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-53719932013263300772018-02-02T02:36:10.309-08:002018-02-02T02:36:10.309-08:00This is what Global10 gives....
Modern Lithuanian...This is what Global10 gives....<br /><br />Modern Lithuanian/Latvian<br />Yamnaya-43%<br />MN Farmer-30%<br />Narva HG-27%<br /><br />Baltia BA-Kivutkalns.<br />Yamnaya-38%<br />MN Farmer-17%<br />Narva HG-45%<br /><br />Baltic BA-Turlojiske<br />Yamnaya-48%<br />MN Farmer-23%<br />Narva HG-29%<br /><br />Baltic CWC-Plinkaigalis242<br />Yamnaya-82%<br />MN Farmer-3%<br />Narva HG-14%<br /><br />Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-72808258873637743602018-02-02T01:14:41.351-08:002018-02-02T01:14:41.351-08:00@Matt
David, do any of the CWC Baltic or CWC Balt...@Matt<br /><br /><i>David, do any of the CWC Baltic or CWC Baltic Early samples work on the Northern Europe specific PCA?</i><br /><br />I'll check.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-42776063700316885652018-02-01T17:00:09.266-08:002018-02-01T17:00:09.266-08:00@Sam, I think you could well be right on the Euro ...@Sam, I think you could well be right on the Euro HG being slightly compressed close on the West Eurasia PCA, though I haven't checked it out in depth.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-58064740056130867952018-02-01T16:59:18.866-08:002018-02-01T16:59:18.866-08:00I checked out the Northern European specific PCA a...I checked out the Northern European specific PCA and merged in with the Welzin BA samples, few plots: https://imgur.com/a/gOlCx<br /><br />@David, do any of the CWC Baltic or CWC Baltic Early samples work on the Northern Europe specific PCA? I'd be interested to know if they just overlap with the same positions that the Steppe_EMBA / Steppe_MLBA / Corded Ware Germany have or whether they are Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-47553492716301884032018-02-01T14:01:20.277-08:002018-02-01T14:01:20.277-08:00Further complicating the picture from BA to modern...Further complicating the picture from BA to modern will be the Siberian admixture. Some graphs including Finns or Saami might be interesting.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-56593536258575208752018-01-31T23:23:50.132-08:002018-01-31T23:23:50.132-08:00WIth scaled dimensions and removing huntergatherer...WIth scaled dimensions and removing huntergatherers, <br /><br />Baltic CWC: <br /> CWC_Baltic:Plinkaigalis241<br />"Yamnaya_Samara" 62.6<br />"Germany_MN" 37.4<br /><br />Baltic LBA-IA (Trziniec) <br /><br /> Baltic_BA:Turlojiske1<br />"Blatterhole_MN" 50.05<br />"Yamnaya_Samara" 49.95<br /><br />So a gradual shift toward EEF, due Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-46349436805850956002018-01-31T22:45:03.657-08:002018-01-31T22:45:03.657-08:00In this PCA early Baltic COrded Ware comes out bas...In this PCA early Baltic COrded Ware comes out basically pure Yamnaya with some WHG admixture. However, it is important to remember HG admixture is exaggerated and EEF admixture underestimated. For example, Baltic BA and modern Balts come out almost as a two mixture between Yamnaya and LatviaHG.<br /><br />Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6191565439230824899.post-53582084404949183762018-01-31T15:22:59.044-08:002018-01-31T15:22:59.044-08:00So Baltic BA were definitely early Balts or Balto-...So Baltic BA were definitely early Balts or Balto-Slav something. I can see it in the mtDNA as well. Looking at WHG levels in Slavs, it would make sense that early Balto Slav communities had Narva admixture and therefore lived pretty far north. <br /><br />@Matt,<br /><br />Looks like Baltic Corded Ware is Yamnaya plus some UkraineHG. Interesting. This could have implications on the precise Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.com